Label Profile – Spynal Records (Diligent Fingers) – (UK)

Diligent Fingers is one seriously talented individual. With a skill set that ranges from spitting bars over hip-hop and grime, MC’ing in the dance over almost anything with a vibe, producing bad assed drum and bass, spinning equal amounts of bad assed drum and bass IRL and on Twitch AND running a record label, you kind of wonder what this guy is going to come up with next.

First coming to our attention via Shadre & Salvage when we were writing for Knowledge Magazine (though he’s been around way longer than that), and then again on Twitch a short time later, we’ve been planning to catch up with this enigmatic soul for quite a while and are very pleased to have finally been able to talk for this interview.

Diligent Fingers! Welcome in!

Thank you, man, great to finally catch up and have a chin wag.

Wow, there are so many things to talk about, but let’s start with Twitch. It was one of the main reasons we started the website in the first place. To show support for a community that would be hard to describe to anybody on the outside. It’s definitely about music, but it’s probably fair to say that it’s really more about people. What’s your take on it?

Straightaway I have to say the community is amazing, like no joke or biases, the community is amazing.  I feel like I had a bit of a leg up with already being known within drum n bass but with Twitch, everyone begins on the same level and the more you put in the more you get out of it. I’ve met some amazing people and streamers on Twitch who have shown me the ropes and helped me so much. There is a real and true sense of community that I haven’t really felt anywhere else. It’s been a mad journey so far, but this November will mark 1 year since becoming an affiliate.

Congratulations on that one, man. We’ve made connections on there we never dreamed were possible, with people from almost every corner of the Globe. You can literally feel the friendship, respect and support beaming out of the screen. The platform has given you an audience that you might never have been able to access before, right?

Most definitely and opened my eyes to how far my/our music is spreading. Plus, the setups, visuals and effort that goes into some of these channels is immense and inspiring.

The talent on there is unreal though, and while there is a financial incentive for some of the streamers on there with a larger audience, even for those it is still mostly all about the music and the connection?

Again, most definitely.  It’s how interactive the platform is as well, being able to raid other channels and share your audience, shoutouts, the emotes for the viewers, games and challenges plus the great charity fundraisers I see very often from the DNB community on there. It’s something else, I’m not just gassing, I see why it works so well for gamers and how anyone can build their own community on there and do great things.

It’s a place where you can also be raw though isn’t it and show your feelings and air your views and open up your heart. I’ve seen you do that quite a few times and it gets emotional! There’s a very human element to the whole process.

Oh yeah there is. Got to shout out people like Norbskiii, Etown Junglists, Juice Drum and Bass and Routine and Poutine. I’ve been a part of some great shows and events. I can’t lie, I’ve always been able to open up but after the last couple years I’ve become more reserved, so it’s been great to open up and speak out about some things again.

So, onto the young Diligent Fingers. Growing up you were completely immersed in music, what with both parents being involved in it in various ways. We grew up in much the same way. Tell us a bit about how growing up in music impacted you as a youngster.

It’s all down to my Mum. She clocked that I was drawn to rhythm and grooves from a very early age, I would always try and copy dance moves from the elder Rastas, music videos and things like that. From there she would always encourage me to get into classes that she could afford, which wasn’t much. She once told me I took my Stepdad’s place in an African drumming group because I kept better timing than him! We went on to perform at the Royal Northern College of Music in Manchester, I was 8 years old at the time.

She bought my first keyboard and drum machine, and she always had me and my younger siblings dancing together. Music was her life and she soaked us in it.

Tell us a bit about your first loves in music, then. Who were the artists or groups that first really struck a chord deep in the heart of the young Diligent Fingers?

I grew up on Reggae, Roots and Lover’s Rock but I have to say Michael Jackson was the one who really made me realise my love for music and dancing. As I got older, I found out about Quincy Jones who produced ‘Thriller’ and started to research and appreciate the people behind the scenes. I fell in love with R&B and Soul, Diana Ross and the Supremes, Nina Simone, you know, all the greats. Then I got into hip hop in my early teens whilst in foster care, stuff like 2pac, Public Enemy, NWA, Busta Rhymes Tribe, De La Soul, The Roots, and I also fell in love with classical music while in school, Beethoven, Bach, Mozart.

And then of course your mum played the decks. We can relate to that one, because we have a similar back story. Tell us a bit about your mum and her days on the one’s and two’s.

She was playing on the radio back then on Mondays and her show was Monday Munchies, nothing but reggae, roots and culture, uplifting and conscious music. She would make mixtapes for people in the area on cassette and CD. She loved to share and spread music to everyone.

Things like that slowed down when she had me and my siblings, but she had a front room with my Stepdad full of all their speakers and sound equipment. I would always be found in there playing records and pretending to be on the radio and have my own show. I didn’t realise it would come full circle and become a huge part of my life. (we have these exact same memories!! Ed)

This is quite an initiation for a young mind, especially when confronted with the lifestyle that goes with DJ’ing and underground music culture. It’s pretty full on, but also incredibly educational. How do you see it now, looking back at the experience?

I got my first set of belt drive turntables after going to a friend’s birthday party and realising that was how jungle / dnb was being mixed/played.

When I first started going out to raves it was at free parties in woods, fields, and abandoned buildings. That’s where I first met up with ‘Daylite Robbery Sound System’ and started rolling with them and learning the ropes. I owe a lot to DRSS who now run Neuron Pro. Once I got my first club booking in 2003 that was it, I was so hungry for it. I would work a full-time job but be DJ’ing, mostly for free, up to 4 times a week. Anything to start getting my name out there. Recording mixes and posting them to forums like NWDNB.co.uk, Dogs on Acid and DNB Arena.

You had to be out there in the mix (pun intended), meeting up with promoters and other DJs, handing out flyers and CDs around the city (Manchester). As soon as broadband came around, I started doing online radio shows on Bassdrive and Ichi Promotions before creating my own with my Evidence called The Mobbstar Show. Looking back, I don’t know how I did it and kept up with it all ha ha.

You very sadly lost your mum recently and there was a huge outpouring of support on Twitch as you did some crucial fund-raising streams to help with costs. That was sad but also incredible to watch. You’re not a man that shies away from showing his emotions.

To a fault at times!  It took a long time to get to this point of being open with the public, and it all came from finally calling the Samaritans and getting introduced to the help I really needed from the Manchester Mental Health team 7 years ago. I’ve always been a talker and articulate, but with going to therapy and deciding to share what I had learned it’s become something I’m proud to do.

And this leads us onto your personal experiences with mental health. We are absolute advocates for mental health and think that now more than ever it is essential to be open and honest about our feelings, and to establish our place in the world.  Can you share a bit about your experiences?

I’ve suffered with severe depression since I was 10. I only realised I was dealing with PTSD and anxiety from way back through therapy. I grew up in a household (like many others) where we kept our problems to ourselves. Also, there is a lot of mental health issues within my family, BPD, Bipolar, Schizophrenia, so I grew up realising members of my family were different and learning how to approach and understand them. That’s why I’ve never really spoken much about my family. From a very early age I’ve seen how cruel people can be about things they don’t understand. 

2008 was when things became very difficult after a traumatic experience of finding two family members dead. I was homeless at the time, staying in the Salvation Army, which was its own crazy experience, but when that happened the police stepped in and helped me to get my own place.

Years later the PTSD got too much and led me to try to commit suicide a couple of times in 2016. I was having lots of nightmares and flashbacks. That’s when the Crisis Team stepped in, but I went down a dark hole which resulted in very public outbursts on social media. Being a musician in the public eye somewhat and going through that was probably the lowest point in my life.

I was very self-destructive, pushed a lot of people away and became very isolated.  But over the years I’ve gained a greater understanding of not just my own mental health but others, a greater understanding of PTSD, depression, anxiety and how deep they can go and how widespread they really are.

Do you think DNB does a good enough job of supporting its patrons? What would you like to see more of in our community in terms of mental health support?

I know we have definitely made big improvements in support and a lot more people within the scene are talking about mental health, which is great, but I feel like we still have a long way to go in terms of balance. We can’t care too much if we’re still tearing down women for what they wear during a DJ stream or making homophobic comments on Twitter for the sake of free speech.

You’ve actually given talks on mental health within the black community at Manchester and Salford Universities. Was this to music students or was it a wider audience, how did it come about, and how did it go?

It was to a wider audience and came about through a friend of MadRush. MadRush and I had setup a label called Stand Up Speak Out in 2019 and released 2 singles, Everyday Bluesy from MadRush, talking about his immigration situation, and Cabin Fever from myself where I talk about my mental health and isolation. We got a great response from the tracks and a year later I was asked to speak at Salford University.

I was part of a couple panels with other speakers from different areas of work and industry including community and youth workers, industry experts, activists and motivational speakers. Mental health is a big issue within the Black community, so it was great to speak to students about my experiences in life and in music, and to hear their perspectives. It’s something I’d love to continue.

Social media is both a blessing and a curse, but probably mostly a curse. Before we start talking about the numbers game, let’s talk about the faceless aspect of social media. It’s hard trying to strike a balance between being informative, being humorous and maintaining a modicum of privacy (within the realms of on-line relationships and groups). It’s hard to navigate this weird space and look after one’s mental health at the same time, right?

It really is. Para social relationships is something I became aware of when I was doing ‘The Viewpoint’ Podcast and morning mental health vlogs on my YouTube channel. Over time people get to know more and more about you through videos and posts, yet you know nothing about the thousands on Facebook, Instagram and hundreds on YouTube and TikTok.

You get to know a few through them telling you their stories and opening up about their struggles, and I appreciate everyone who has. I really don’t want to sound ungrateful, as It’s impossible to form a bond with all these people, but they form a bond with you which, on the surface, is amazing and what you want.

Where it took a turn for me was when I got into an online feud with someone who tried to assume my mental state was poor, online. I was happy at the time but when I corrected him, it went from being concerned about my mental health to “you’re only talking about this stuff and making videos for views and likes “. It turned into a massive thing that went on for 2 days, groups were made about me claiming I’m one sandwich short of a picnic basket, being accused of having a ‘psychotic episode’.

Even though I didn’t think I was putting too much out there about myself, that situation really made me question that. I saw how easy things can be manipulated about you. My anxiety shot through the roof, I ended up deleting my Facebook page and came very close to quitting music. I must admit, after that situation, my relationship with social media is so much different now and unfortunately, I’m very wary of who I meet online. There’s so much pressure to be online in the first place especially in the music industry, yet you’re open to so much negativity at any moment.

And then there’s the relentless promotion and yes, the ‘numbers game’. We’ve kind of come to the conclusion that most people under a certain age really don’t read that much (either on paper or on-line) and would much rather watch video snippets and listen to audio in order to learn. That’s fine. It’s how we’re progressing as a race and as a scene, but this makes reaching out to that audience tough, and promoting your wares even tougher!

If I’m honest I’m the same. I’m more of a visual learner than written, I’m a slow reader (and writer). I like to read, but I have to make time and space for it so, it would only be certain magazines and books that would make the cut. Video and YouTube were lifesavers when it came to learning about music production, being able to see what people are talking about really makes a difference for me personally. Watching video documentaries and masterclasses on my favourite artists, producers and designers. I think both mediums can and do still work well together, more choice is always good in my opinion.

On the face of it, it would be easy to come to the conclusion that DNB had an ageing demographic, but actually the youngsters just engage differently. DNB is as vibrant now with young people as it’s ever been, so how do you manage to keep your on-line presence bouncing across the age brackets?

I don’t think I ever really thought about trying to cross all age brackets, Ultimately, I’ve always believed if the content is good then it will reach the right audience that’s looking for it. I’ve never been one to keep up with trends, but I do like finding new tech and trying new things. I think sometimes we let our age dictate the platforms we think we should be using. Twitch and TikTok are great examples, everyone thought they were just gaming and dance trend platforms until some of us jumped in. Sometimes you must look past what other people are using them for and figure out how to use them to your advantage.

That’s a fair comment, and this subject links in perfectly to your label Spynal Records, which you’ve been running since 2009. Was the main impetus behind this was to be your own boss?

Not at first. It was mainly a way of just getting myself heard outside of signing to a proper label. Me and my friends were making a lot of hip hop and experimental stuff at the time, I was part of a few crews, Abstract Fusion, Abnoxshuz Entertainment, Black Widow Night Fighters, Organix, Digga Love and The Beat Inn (Millennium Jazz Music) and Ruthless Kombination with Rowney, Propz and Frisko. Things were really starting to pick up for me in drum n bass, but we had all this music we were making and then we found Bandcamp.

I put out an EP called ‘On A Level’ and then a massive mixtape called ‘No U Turns Vol.1’ made up of well-known instrumentals and a few of my productions. It became a place to put out all my non-DNB content, try out ideas and experiment. I was making so much music, hip hop, dubstep, grime and DNB and I was writing so many verses and working with so many different people, it just made sense.

Logic MC aka Diligent Fingers & Rowney

Yes, you’re from Manchester, which is a hotbed of DNB talent, so that gave you a nice pot of resources in terms of artists and producers?

Of course! Abstract Fusion was a group of friends just getting into the DNB scene and making music together, BWNF was my first hip hop group and we put out our first album in 2009. Ruthless Kombination was my first DNB group just as Rowney and Propz were setting up G13 Records.

Its mad thinking back, DRS, Strategy, Skittles, Sparkz, Chunky, T Man, Chimpo, Frisko, Eddie P, and so many more, all of us, working hard and making so much music. It puts a big smile on my face because I’m literally only scratching the surface and to see how far we’ve come just makes me proud.

With all of that said, I wasn’t afraid to work with people outside of Manchester. Abnoxshuz Entertainment is a hip hop crew with members from all across the UK and we made a lot of albums and mixtapes together. Millennium Jazz Music is a worldwide label and crew of jazz hip hop producers still making music today. We’ve put out so much music over the years but 2009 was a great year and the start of so many amazing things.

So, did things go well at the start? How did you find getting your head around the business end of it?

Yeah, it did alright. I wasn’t really thinking about any business. I was just happy to get music out there and get feedback and a little bit of money if I was lucky. I loved putting projects together and coming up with concepts. I started 2 different series, ‘Therapy Sessions’, which were my hip hop instrumentals and then Dil’s Winter Mixtapes, where I recorded a fresh track every 2 weeks which covered the winter period and made up a full 10 track project at the end. There was a lot of freedom that came with not focusing on trying to make money in the beginning.

And you’ve found Bandcamp to be a good platform for showcasing your sound? It’s quite a nice platform to use as a consumer, but what about as a label?

I think if you are looking for the most direct support then it’s the best platform other than your own website. If you are willing to do the extra work for marketing and distribution, then you can do very well, especially if you use your social media platforms to your advantage. Bandcamp can’t compete with the likes of Spotify and Apple Music, but I don’t think it’s trying to if I’m honest. I love that unlike the others, you can foster a close-knit community within the Bandcamp ecosystem and provide more exclusive stuff for your supporters which I plan to do in the future.

And now there’s this absolutely killer EP you’ve just released which combines the Spynal ethic, the community spirit of Twitch DNB and also showcases just a small handful of the incredible talent on the platform across four tracks. Tell is a bit about this awesome and quite unique idea. How did you come up with the idea?

It came from building the Motion Gang community on Twitch. Motion Gang being what I call my viewers and supporters. The more I got into Twitch and finding and meeting new streamers, the more it made sense to incorporate the label. With the amount of amazing producers I’ve found on Twitch like Ballistikus, Deazy, Konklave, Conflate, PeeCee, GarryWithTwoRs and loads more, it felt like a way of giving back. Over the years I’ve met a lot of producers that just don’t like the business side and/or politics of the industry and as a result their music doesn’t get heard as much as it should.

Sometimes they feel like their music doesn’t fit in with current trends or is too different to work, and sometimes they are set on how a project should come out, but the label doesn’t want to take the chance. The aim with the Motion Gang series is to help artists get a foot in the door (if they need it) and help build confidence with getting their music out there. I’m not claiming to be anything big but if I can help then I will.

Deazy has been an interviewee of ours before (and you can read that here) and you’re talking to us now, so tell us a bit about the other two producers?

Mate Deazy is sick, makes amazing liquid too so I’m looking forward to releasing a full project with him in the future.

Ballstikus is a fellow streamer and producer from Sheffield and such a safe guy. We’ve only met a couple of times, but we got talking about music during one of my production streams and he started sending me his tracks.  As soon as I heard ‘Another One’, I took it straightaway. Sombre, dark and atmospheric, soulful with an edge. He has his own sound which I love.

DJ Direkt is a good friend of mine; I’ve been pushing him to get on Twitch more, so you’ll be seeing him a lot more soon. He has a very unique sound and doesn’t follow the trend which is what Spynal is all about.  We’ve been sending each other music for years now, so it was only a matter of time before he popped up on the label and ‘Justice’ is such a banger that it had to go on the EP as his introduction.

So, there are two things we’d like to ask as we sign off. The first one is about the future of the label. You’re well established now with a strong fanbase, so do you have plans for maybe artist albums or showcases?

Oh, most definitely. I have a couple of artists working on Solo Eps, I’m working on 2 albums, One for Dread Recordings and one for Spynal, plus there’s going to be more non-DNB stuff being released too. 

And the second one is this: You have no idea what either salad cream or mayonnaise taste like? WTF?

Ha Ha! I’m allergic to Salad Cream which I found out at a very early age, and I’ve never taken the chance with Mayo, but I heard it’s amazing with chips.!

FIND OUT MORE HERE:

Music | Spynal Records (bandcamp.com)

Diligent Fingers (Dili) 🐝 (@diligentfingersmcr) • Instagram photos and videos

Spynal Records (@spynalrecords) • Instagram photos and videos